From Loan Trader to Multifamily Real Estate Investor: Secret To Success | Darin Batchelder Podcast

In this episode, I talk with Darin Batchelder. Darin is multifamily investor with over 9,000 units, published author, and podcast host.

We will discuss how he transitioned from loan trading to real estate investing.

He will also share how he went from his first real estate investment to a 76 unit multifamily property and the proper way you should approach seeking to partner or collaborate with more experienced investors.

He also tackled about the multifamily market outlook is over the next 12-18 months.

Whether you’re a seasoned real estate investor or just starting out, this episode is packed with valuable insights that you won’t want to miss.

Don’t forget to like, share, and subscribe to our channel for more inspiring stories and informative content.

Transcript:

Darin Batchelder 00:00

to listeners, I mean, it’s it really is all about like, first of all, you have to decide. And you have to believe that you can achieve it. Whenever you’re putting your mind to you have value in there other people that don’t want to do what you’re doing that you like doing. And it can change, like you said, you know, in the beginning, I wanted to do it all. And then now I’m 52 with my wife and I bought an RV you want to travel like, I don’t want to do it all, you know, I want somebody else to run the day.

Chris Bounds  00:27

In this episode, I talk with Darren Batchelder. Darren is a multifamily investor with over 9000 units. He’s a published author. In podcast post, we discuss how he transitioned from loan trading to real estate investing, how he went from his first deal as a duplex to investing in a 76 unit multifamily property, the proper way that you should approach seeking to partner with experienced real estate investors, and we touch on the real estate market outlook over the next 1218 months. I hope you enjoy. And here’s the show. Are you doing? They’re very good, Chris,

Darin Batchelder 01:04

thanks for having me on.

Chris Bounds  01:05

Absolutely. It’s real pleasure to have you on. Let’s just gonna jump right into it. You have an interesting journey and how you got into real estate and you definitely did a lot of stuff before getting into the real estate industry. But it seems like loan trading was kind of your, your starting path into the real estate industry. And you’ve you’ve traded like $4 billion, or over $4 billion in and loans. Can you explain a little bit what what is loan trading and how you how you found yourself trading loans?

Darin Batchelder 01:37

Sure. So if you’ve ever had a mortgage, and all of a sudden you got a letter saying, hey, next month, don’t send your payment to ABC bank, but send it to XYZ bank, there was probably a salesperson that sold a large portfolio of loans from one bank to another bank. And so that’s basically what I was doing on I was working for ABN AMRO Dutch bank, I suspect 2000 to 2006 and trading large portfolios of residential and multifamily loans. And so, you know, the reasons for some banks are really good at raising deposits, and they have a lot of deposits, but they don’t have enough loans. So they buy loans from somebody that is really good at making loans. And so that the the seller will book the loans as a game, and the buyer looks at the loans as as an investment in a portfolio.

Chris Bounds  02:39

Yeah, and I remember when I bought my house, my first actually I bought investment houses before I ever bought my own personal residence. But when I when I bought it and you go through all that paperwork, I swear it was 90 days before I got that letter. I’m like, Well, what’s going on? Like, I talked to you, but now I gotta talk to this other person. Some people like take

Darin Batchelder 02:57

it personally like what what is what I do wrong? I paid on time. It’s not anything personal that it’s just one bank had different needs than the other bank.

Chris Bounds  03:06

Yeah. And it seems like Wells Fargo is one of those big players where Bank of America to where, you know, they they tend to buy up a lot of those loans. So you have all these originators on the lower level, the essentially their sales folks, right? They’re out there selling money. And but they’re doing it in a way that conforms to the standards the larger banks want, so they can just pack them up and sell them. Right

Darin Batchelder 03:30

that? Absolutely, yep.

Chris Bounds  03:33

So how did you find yourself going from that to actually, you know, jumping on to the investing side? And yeah, so it’s

Darin Batchelder 03:39

interesting. I’m older than you are. I’m 52. I got involved in the real estate game probably 47, so about five years ago. And, you know, I so after I left ABN AMRO, I started my own company, I still have a company that trades loans, so but I heard yours for years, presidents and Chief Learning officers tell me they love the performance of multifamily loans, both in up markets and down markets. And you know, I heard it year after year after year, but I didn’t go out and buy any real estate. So finally at the age of 47, I told my wife I’m like, and I’m gonna go out and buy some real estate. And so we bought a duplex. And then I wanted to go bigger. And so I joined a mentorship group in Dallas and then did a 76 unit syndication. And then, you know, I’ve been doing partnering with other folks that have been 200 300 unit type deals. So it’s crazy. One thing leads to the other.

Chris Bounds  04:40

If you went from more as a job on the real estate side into owning a duplex and then straight into large multifamily. That’s a pretty, pretty big jump.

Darin Batchelder 04:51

Yeah, so the biggest thing I would I would tell you and your listeners is is that, you know, surround yourself with other people that do I’ve done what you want to do. So when I joined the mentorship group, all sudden, I was in a room with a bunch of people that had done 100 unit 200 unit 300 unit deals and multiple ones. And I was like, these are smart people. But you know if they can do it, I can do it right. And I didn’t even know that that existed. But once I was in the room, it opened my eyes. And I was like, I could do this, you know. And so then I just put my focus to it. And, and but if you know, if you just surround yourself with people that have not invested in real estate, it’s very hard to believe that you can achieve that.

Chris Bounds  05:42

Yeah. And I mean, you don’t know what you don’t know. And what Stephen Covey says you’re the, you’re the average of the five people you hang around with most. And Tony Robbins likes to say proximity is power. And I shared in a newsletter a couple of weeks ago, that proximity Power is power. It’s not that difficult to do. I mean, there are free meetups all over most metro areas that you can get in proximity with people that are doing what you want to do or have been where you’re trying to go. And then there are mastermind programs and coaching programs that you’ll pay to get into those rooms. But, you know, typically there there’s also a higher caliber of people that are in those groups, right?

Darin Batchelder 06:24

Absolutely. And I was a paid pay to play, you know, I joined a paid mentorship group. And some people were like, Darren, man, why are you doing that you have all this experience trading loans, and I’m like, Yeah, but I’ve never bought an apartment complex, you know. So that’s who I want to be around. And and, you know, I probably could have done it without being in that group. But it probably would have taken, you know, it took me a year to get my first syndication deal closed. And it probably would have taken me three, four or five, you know, and was that

Chris Bounds  06:55

as you as operator

Darin Batchelder 06:57

that that was me, I partnered with another gentleman that I met in the multifamily group, Raj Gupta out of Chicago. And he had the experience that I didn’t have buying apartment complexes. And so we partnered on that and then we raised capital for that, for that deal. And from other limited partners.

Chris Bounds  07:20

Can you elaborate a little bit more on that? Because the phrase, I’m sure you’ve heard it 1000 times probably every week, can I pick your brain? And what I usually tell folks is, instead of saying that, when you say how can I help you approach it from from a value standpoint? So how did you get to a position where you can partner with someone who was experienced and probably didn’t need your help? Since you didn’t have the experience? Maybe you had money that you’re bringing in in connections, but how did you approach that situation where you were coming in a position of value, or it was a mutual relationship? And you can both both win on that deal together?

Darin Batchelder 08:01

Yeah, that’s a that’s a great question. When I first started in that mentorship group, I kind of played the AMA good guy, like, let’s partner together, you know, and I had a lot of people like you had Aaron, you know, over a beer, whatever, like, Yeah, well, we’ll partner together when the right opportunity comes in, they just didn’t come right. And I finally had somebody that kind of smacked me in the face a little bit like, and she was like, exactly what you said, like Darren, if I have a deal, why am I gonna partner with you? I’m gonna partner with that guy over there. He’s got, you know, eight deals under his belt, and he can raise capital on this not the other day. And I was like, holy cow.

So why would you ever partner with a new guy like me? And she’s like, go find the deal. And so that’s when I pivoted I, I realized that that’s the value I could bring was, I go do all the legwork. And so that’s what I did. So I would, I would underwrite the deals, I would go out on the property tours, I would, you know, contact the property management companies get the quotes for the lender. So I pretty much put everything together. And then when I approached Raj Gupta, the my experienced partner in the deal, I was like, Look, I’ve got, um, I’m in, you know, I think I have a really good chance of winning this deal.

You know, do you want to partner with me? He’s like, send over the information. I had everything done, you know, so 45 minute conversation. And he’s like, yeah, man, I have another property down the road. You know, I know that area I’m in. And so that was the value was going and doing the legwork. So, you know, I say to the listeners, like it doesn’t matter how young or how old you are. You have value. You just have to figure out what it is. You know, is do you want to do the hustle factor. Do you have the money? You have the connections, you know, you have something

Chris Bounds  09:59

Yeah, And so were you leveraging your mortgage contacts on finding that deal or were using like a different strategy of you were just hustling contacting owners and brokers.

Darin Batchelder 10:10

So in the large scale, multifamily business, the brokers pretty much control like a percent of the market. So, you know, I, I found out who the brokers were in, in Dallas, I wanted to be in the Dallas market. That’s where I live. And so I found out who the brokers were, and then I started to underwrite every deal that these brokers Were coming out with. And then when I found a deal that looked attractive, then I would reach out to them and, and go out and do a property tour. And, you know, and then decide after that, whether I was going to continue to pursue it. You can do that.

Chris Bounds  10:53

Anyone can do that. It’s just, if you want, if you’re wanting to break into multifamily, whether you’re in single family already, and you have some real estate experience, or you’re brand new, it’s just finding that value that you can have now, almost anyone is going to be wanting a deal. But there are other things too. I had an operator. And you know, she had a deal in Houston. She didn’t live in Houston. And she was like, Hey, can you go check this out? Give me your feedback. And you know, if we win, you know, we’ll partner with you on it. And it was something she needed. And she quickly. And we were boots

Darin Batchelder 11:25

on the ground for that person. That’s, that’s another way a van value for sure. Yeah.

Chris Bounds  11:30

Yeah, absolutely. So just just finding that niche. So that was a 72 units. 76. Okay, and then so from there, you went into much larger multifamily properties or

Darin Batchelder 11:44

so from there. And so my partner asked me, like, you know, what, how do you want the roles to be divided? You know, what are you looking to do? What are you looking for me? And I was like, Look, this is my first indication, do I really want to do everything? And have you be like, my board of directors looking out over my shoulder, make sure I don’t make any big mistakes. And, and he was, he was great. I mean, he let me run with, with most things. And, and if he thought I was gonna go down, you know, sometimes I would say, Hey, this is what I’d like to do in this situation, he realized, I think you may want to consider this. And I think about it, I’m like, oh, that’s smart. Let’s do that.

But after I did that, you know, that syndication, I looked back and said, you know, what, what do I want from my life? What do I want my life to look like going forward? What do I enjoy doing? What do I not enjoy doing? And so for me, I looked at the syndication, and I’m glad I did everything. But I don’t like operations. I don’t like the day to day. So, you know, doing the weekly Asset Management call. I don’t love that. Doing reviewing the K ones and tax returns at the end of the year. I don’t love that sending out the month, the investor email. I don’t love that. So I was like, Well, how can I still be involved in these deals? I like these deals, but not do that.

And I was like, well, I’ll go partner with other syndicators. And so that’s where the last eight deals I’ve done have been where the syndicator gets the deal on a contract and says, Hey, Darren, do you want to partner on this, and then I jumped in, and I’m a, I’m one of the GPS in the deal. And I enjoy that because I’m involved in deals I’m involved in the beginning, I help raise capital bring in, you know, I have investors that want to get into these deals, but they they’re busy professionals, and they don’t know everybody so it’s like, I’m able to get give them access to something that they couldn’t get into. Without me and so it’s, it’s been it’s been a lot of fun.

Chris Bounds  13:53

Essentially, that is the same question that we started out this interview with was how can you provide value so initially, it was how can you provide value and but it was more on the operator side. Now it’s okay. I know that I know what I like and don’t like how can I provide value and not be involved in operations? And now it’s up until a little bit more on on the capital side and more strategic planning and investment advice.

Darin Batchelder 14:18

Right. Exactly. And and so, you know, to listeners, I mean, it’s, it really is all about like, first of all you have to decide and you have to believe that you can achieve it right whenever you whenever you put your mind to but you have value in there other people that don’t want to do what you’re doing, you know, that you like doing and it can change like you said, you know, in the beginning I wanted to do it all. And then now I’m 52 my wife and I bought an RV you want to travel like I don’t want to do it all. You know I want somebody else to run the day to day.

Chris Bounds  14:54

What are some things going into that first large multifamily that you Oh, thought would be true. Ended up being very much not true.

Darin Batchelder 15:08

Um, you know, some, some people in the space say, if you find the right deal, money will just be there magically like that I don’t think is true. I think that I think that you need to, you know, build relationships, you can have the best deal in the world, if you don’t have strong relationships with people where they know like and trust you, then they’re not gonna do that deal. So, you know, raising capital, you can start early, going out to your contacts. And some so some people have said, Hey, Darren meant, well, I don’t have the experience, how am I gonna go to my network?

And I’m like, don’t sell you. You know, you’re gonna, you’re gonna partner with a property management company as 5000 units in your market, you’re gonna partner with a, you know, an attorney that that’s all they do is sec, syndication type multifamily deals, you’re gonna partner with an experienced guy, you know, so you sell the fact that yeah, you know, you know, they know that you haven’t done a deal yet, right? But you’re like, Hey, show them a deal. What a deal looks like, you know, and you don’t, so you don’t even have to have a live deal. You know, hey, I’m looking for things that look like this. And I’m partnering with companies like this. And then all of a sudden, people are like, Oh, that makes sense. Yeah, it’s

Chris Bounds  16:35

multifamily. Definitely, definitely. I mean, really, all real estate investing is a team sport. But it’s absolutely true when you get into larger projects, like like multifamily, so leveraging other people’s success, which you did initially with operations, but anyone can do and should do, even if you haven’t done a deal, because ultimately, it’s those relationships, and that team is really going to be taken down the deal, not any one individual.

Darin Batchelder 17:02

Right. And the other thing is that, look, everybody is at different levels, you know, like, people going after the first deal, some people want to get a 20 unit deal, a 50 unit deal. 100 unit, you know, somebody’s already got 3000 units, you know, there’s there’s people, all different facets, but what people have to understand is, you know, there are people in your network that can’t relate to somebody that maybe has 3000 units already. So they don’t want to learn from that person. They want to learn from the person that is just going after their first deal. So, you know, some people think to themselves, I don’t want to post on social media, I don’t want to tell my friends and family, because I haven’t done it yet. I want to tell them after I’ve done it, but those people in those network, they want to see how you how you did it, your journey. So share your journey. That’s a

Chris Bounds  18:02

little just, I don’t think it’s posted yet. But it was it was a clip. So saying, I’ll be posting it soon on Tik Tok. And it’s an event that we did a few years ago, where people were afraid to tell their journey because they’re not Grant Cardone yet, or they haven’t done on, you know, 1000 units, or maybe 100 unit multifamily, or they haven’t bought, you know, 20 single families at the end of the day, and Catch Me If You Can, he talked about he taught this class and it was like, how, how did you teach this class and do it proficiently, he was like, I just had to be one or two chapters ahead of the students. So wherever you are in life, you’re one or one or two chapters ahead of someone. So it’s not really your right to judge the knowledge that you put out in your experience that you put out because someone out there will get value from it. Not everyone, but someone will ends that connection that really makes an impact. And then you just do that consistently as you grow. People love watching that.

Darin Batchelder 19:02

It’s so true. You hit it on the head as an

Chris Bounds  19:06

LP investor, or partnering with other operators. What what are some things that you’re seeing in let’s face it this way? When you make a decision to partner with an operator, what are maybe the one or two things that really stand out that you have confidence in, they know what they’re doing? And then on the flip side, what are a couple things that you typically see is red flags, and it’s it’s gonna make it harder for you to be able to work with them.

Darin Batchelder 19:43

So you know, everybody’s gonna have different criteria for the way I look at it is first the market. Second, the people are the deal. So I want to be in strong growth markets. So Arizona and Texas will Florida, Georgia, Carolinas, Nashville, Colorado. So those are the kinds of markets that I focusing on. If it’s not in that market, I don’t really care if it’s a, you know, really strong operator, I’m not looking at the deal. Now, they could be great deals, that’s just my criteria. Second is the people, you know, do they have a good track record? And do I? Do I know them? Like, I’m, I’m really not doing deals with people that I either don’t know, personally.

And when I say no, I’m not saying for like a month, I mean, most likely, I’ve known them for the last two or three years, or I know people that know them, and they have really strong reputation. So that’s kind of what I’m focused on first, to kind of getting the gain. And then when I look at the deal, you know, I want to I want to have, because I come from the financing background I want, I want to really understand the loan. You know, there’s, that’s a big factor, and a lot of deals are, are getting hurt right now, because of interest rates going up. And I’m in some of those deals, I knew the risk, and I and I chose to do the deal anyway.

Because as an LP because I, you know, I knew the operator wanted to get into that deal. But I knew the risk, and it’s, you know, biting the deal. It’s hurting cash flow, because interest rates going up. Red flags, I don’t really look at Red, you know, red flags as much, because now I get a lot of deals that come through my desk, so it’s more about which deals am I gonna do then, then oh, I’m, I’m totally staying away from this one. But, um, you know, things like, if you’re, you know, the financing is, is a piece for me. And the thing about this business is that some people are gonna, like Chris bounds. And some people are gonna like Darren Batchelder, you know, and some people don’t. So there’s some people, some syndicators, I just click with better performance, and somebody else might be fantastic. They have a great track record, but I just don’t click with that person as much. And so I don’t want to do business, you know, and it’s not just about the return. It’s about, you know, liking the people you’re doing business with. Yeah, yeah. Because, I

Chris Bounds  22:35

mean, you’re in a partnership agreement. You’re sure it’s temporary. 357 10 years. But

Darin Batchelder 22:41

that’s a marriage. And yeah, I mean, as an LP, you know, it’s you don’t really have that much control. Once you walk, you know, wire the funds, you’re you’re getting, you’re reading an email you you can call and ask questions and whatnot, but you don’t really have that much input into the day to day operations. But, you know, when you get in, you want to know that you’re working with people that will pick up your call, you know, and that people that, you know, care about you and care about your the investment capital that you’re putting into the deal, you know, so that’s what I focus on.

Chris Bounds  23:19

Final question before we get into closing is market outlook. I’m sure your crystal ball is broken. Mine’s been broken for a while. But we’ve Feds fighting inflation, and they’ve been very adamant on doing everything they can to get inflation down to like 2%. At least from my observation, it seemed like maybe they thought they were on the right track, and then boom, numbers pick back up again. Which at least on the single family side, and we’ve seen mortgages pick back up. I mean, it’s not 100% correlative, but it there is some relation. So where are you seeing the multifamily market

Darin Batchelder 24:05

over the next

Chris Bounds  24:07

1824 months as far as well? Let’s not let’s not go that far out. Maybe 1218 months, as far as valuations and buyer sentiment, this whole bridge gap between seller expectations and buyer expectations, and

Darin Batchelder 24:22

what do you think? So I talked to a lot of syndicators, a lot of syndicators seem to think that in the next six to nine months, there’s going to be a lot of deals that are going to be coming to the market that are in trouble. Because bridge loans were provided on these deals, and there were two or three year bridge loans and they’re going to be coming due and with interest rates going up there. They’re not going to be able to refinance. And so they’re gonna have to sell at a discount. That very well could happen. I don’t know aren’t really sitting there, you know, thinking that that’s hanging my hat that’s going to happen. And look, all investments are cyclical, I’ve seen real estate go down.

And when it goes down, it typically stays down for, you know, one to three years. But what I’ve seen since being involved in this market is that I’m a believer, like longer term medium to longer term, that multifamily is just a fantastic asset class. So that’s why I want to have a loan on the deal that’s at least five years out, so that can, if it goes down, you can ride through that down period and come out the other side. But I’m a big believer that multifamily asset values will continue to rise, we may have a dip that comes. But so I’m still bullish on it. You know, there’s a huge affordability gap right now. What does that mean? It’s the it’s the gap between okay, if you were to buy a house and put 20% down and and, you know, get a 7% mortgage, what would your payment be? versus, you know, what would it cost to rent?

And, you know, it’s at all time highs right now that that difference? So I think that you’re going to have, you know, more people that are going to choose to rent because they don’t even have they don’t have the cash down or it’s too costly to buy. And then if we go into a recession, what happens during recessions? Well, people lose their jobs, they can’t afford the mortgage, they sell the house, and then they have to go and rent. You know, so I’m a believer that, you know, the fundamental support, multifamily going forward. But I’m also a realist that there could be, you know, a downturn.

Chris Bounds  26:55

Yeah, that’s kind of been my sentiment is the the long term outlook seems very favorable, just was supply and demand and just basic fundamentals with housing affordability, but the short term. I mean, that’s really the challenge is, isn’t it? Yeah,

Darin Batchelder 27:13

that’s the challenge. And you know, what, I’ve seen people getting deals done today, or, you know, a lot of people are doing deals with, you know, assuming loans on other deals. And what I would tell listeners is, you know, it’s probably a great time for first time, investors, because there’s not as much competition, there’s a lot of people that have pulled back, and they’re like, Hey, I don’t, you know, I’m gonna wait until the dust settles, well, when the dust settles, everybody piles back in, and then you as the first time investor, are going to be at the back of the line, as the broker is not going to pick you. But right now they’re spending time with with a lot more buying groups, because there’s, you know, a lot of people have backed off.

Chris Bounds  27:59

Yeah, I would imagine that’d be especially true with small multifamily. with Mom and Pop owners too, especially on Twitter.

Darin Batchelder 28:06

Absolutely. Um, and, you know, I’m not in that creative finance world. But, you know, in the small multifamily I mean, it may be an opportunity to, to get sellers to do seller financing, you know, and so you have to put less money down and you get into the deal, you solve their problem, they want to get out and they they can’t because of the finance markets, and and you give them their price, but you know, they they do seller financing.

Chris Bounds  28:38

All right. So, these final four questions as to everyone starting off, if you could give advice to your 20 year old self, what would that be?

Darin Batchelder 28:47

I real estate, my son is about to graduate a&m. And I’m like, I heard this on another podcast, which I wish I had done this. They said, You know, you’re only a first time homebuyer once, right, and you can get an FHA loan for like, three and a half percent down while rather than going buying your first house or go and buy a duplex, a triplex or four Plex, live in one unit. You only have to live in it for a year, and you can move out. And now you have your first investment property right out of the gate with three and a half percent down when, you know, typically you’re you’re asked to bring in 20% or more.

Chris Bounds  29:30

Yeah, yeah, the house hacking model. I mean, you can do that with single family to the house hacking where I live in flip. Man, I would never want to personally do that. But I know people have done that. And then two years later, or whatever the rules are on the mortgage, then sell it tax free games, do it again.

Darin Batchelder 29:46

I mean, it’s just crazy when you know if you’re 20 something years old, I’m 52 like 30 some odd years of compounding gains like that’s crazy. I recently was in Florida and I, I saw somebody that was in my neighborhood that my old neighborhood, they said, You know what your house is worth now. And we sold it for like, 430. And it’s a million dollar house now. Had I just held on and rented it? You know, that’s it. Those numbers extended grand. Yeah. But as that’s what I would tell my 20 year old self buy real estate, yes, for sure.

Chris Bounds  30:26

What book or books have greatly influenced your life.

Darin Batchelder 30:29

And I love to read. There’s so many books. I recently did an interview with the co author of the Go Giver, that was that was a great book. That was a, it was written as a parable, basically, you know, talking about giving is better than receiving, you know, if you if you give to people, they’re more apt to want to help you and give you what you want. So that’s a great book, and it’s a very easy read.

Chris Bounds  30:59

I’ve heard of it. I haven’t read that. Have you read gift ology?

Darin Batchelder 31:03

No, is that a good one? Very good one.

Chris Bounds  31:07

It approaches it a little bit more on the sales standpoint, but it’s the same thing. It’s the same same concept of reciprocity, but it’s very tactful. The last five years, what new late in the last five years what new behavior belief or habit has most improved your life?

Darin Batchelder 31:31

That’s interesting. So when I read books, I’m trying to grab, like, you know, some nuggets from the and then actually not just read it and be like, Oh, that’s great. But actually apply it to my life. Right. And so, you know, I’m trying to, you know, one of them, I have recently read was Hal Elrod book, Miracle Morning. And I bought the book, and I didn’t really, I didn’t read it for a long time, because I kind of thought it was going to be like, Get up, make your bed, you’re gonna feel good about yourself, you know, and I just didn’t want I didn’t want to read that book. But instead, it was, it was great, because it kind of structured your, your morning in like four or five different areas. And so I started to form that habit of doing that. And I incorporated, reading one chapter in the Bible, in that and, you know, just having structure in the morning is very helpful. I find, yeah.

Chris Bounds  32:37

I found that very impactful. It’s tactical, it’s it’s the factory, but

Darin Batchelder 32:44

how can people reach out to you two ways, if you want to have a podcast also, if you want to learn about podcasts, you can go to Darren batchelder.com. If you are interested in investing in multifamily, as a limited partner, you can go to dB, Private equity.com. Got it.

Chris Bounds  33:05

Thank you very much, Darren, and I look forward to meet with you in person since we’re not too far away.

Darin Batchelder 33:10

Yeah, absolutely. Another Texan and so I look forward to it. So appreciate you having me on.

Chris Bounds  33:16

Absolutely. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for tuning in. If you got any value out of this at all, please like, comment, subscribe, follow, I’d love to hear from you. And for more real estate related content, market observations, upcoming events, you can go to invest it x.com And subscribe to our weekly newsletter. I promise you won’t regret it. Thanks again.